rasvanpolttajista.
- Keskustelun aloittaja aidan
- Aloitettu
10% ALENNUS KOODILLA PAKKOTOISTO
- Liittynyt
- 7.10.2002
- Viestejä
- 2 075
Toimiva: ECA
Mahd. toimivia: CLA, synefriini, 7-ketoDHEA.
Mahd. toimivia: CLA, synefriini, 7-ketoDHEA.
- Liittynyt
- 12.5.2004
- Viestejä
- 985
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- 45
Heh, en tiedä mikä "ylinatu-intoilu"iski mutta kaupassa ollessani iski kuitenkin ajatus että vaikka tuota Ma Huangia ei roinaan voi rinnastaakkaan, halusin jättää kaikenlaisen ylimääräisen "elimistön peukaloinnin" väliin, eli puntilla ja proteiinilla jatketaan. Tosin elämäni ekaa proteiinipirtelöä vetäessä meinasi laattaa lentää, tulen kyllä laskemaan ruoka-aine ruoka-aineelta onnistunko ottaan sen 200gr proteiinia ilman mitään lisiä. Tai että hätätapauksessa lisäämällä proteiinijauhetta vain ruokaan, tai käyttämällä patukoita..
Millä hemmetin selkärangalla te noi litkut saatte alas... :urjo:
Millä hemmetin selkärangalla te noi litkut saatte alas... :urjo:
- Liittynyt
- 7.8.2003
- Viestejä
- 1 776
Kyllä se ajan myötä meneeWondadog sanoi:
- Liittynyt
- 23.3.2004
- Viestejä
- 1 760
- Ikä
- 38
Jep, kyllä tuo EC toimii.
Proteiinien mausta sen verran, että tuli tuossa hetkitakaperin ensimmäinen maustettu protsku ostettua ja se on niin hyvää, että sitä vois vetää vaikka koko pussin kerralla
Proteiinien mausta sen verran, että tuli tuossa hetkitakaperin ensimmäinen maustettu protsku ostettua ja se on niin hyvää, että sitä vois vetää vaikka koko pussin kerralla
- Liittynyt
- 30.8.2002
- Viestejä
- 587
- Liittynyt
- 26.12.2002
- Viestejä
- 6 836
JAMR sanoi:
Taitaa olla douppaus osion kamaa, arvon moteraattorit siirtäkööt, jos näkee siihen tarvetta
Ja minä omassani
. No olkoon se tulos mikä tahansa niin itsellä on positiivisia kokemuksia mahuang tuotteista. Vie mukavasti nälän ja tuntuu se rasvakin tirisevän paremmin. Edellinen voi olla blaceboa tai sitten ei, mutta samapa tuo minulle. Noi copy/pastet meni nyt vähän vituiksi, mutta lähteet on aina alapuolella josta vastaava teksti löytyy. Kokonaisuudessaan pyrin abstraktit tuohon laittamaan. Jos on vahinkolaukaus tullut jossain kohtaa niin pyydän anteeksi. Tuolla on noita tutkimuksia aika kasa. Otin vain ne jotka ekana tuli vastaan ja lisää löytyy jos vaan jaksaa lueskella. Noi ei oo missään järjestyksessä ja varmasti parempiakin tutkimuksia asiasta on. Anssi vois laittaa myös llinkin jos toisenkin, kun kerran asiasta melkoisesti tietää.
Herbal ephedra/caffeine for weight loss: a 6-month randomized safety and efficacy trial.
Boozer CN, Daly PA, Homel P, Solomon JL, Blanchard D, Nasser JA, Strauss R, Meredith T.
New York Obesity Research Center, St Luke's-Roosevelt Hospital and Columbia University, New York 10025, USA.
OBJECTIVE: To examine long-term safety and efficacy for weight loss of an herbal Ma Huang and Kola nut supplement (90/192 mg/day ephedrine alkaloids/caffeine). DESIGN: Six-month randomized, double-blind placebo controlled trial. SUBJECTS: A total of 167 subjects (body mass index (BMI) 31.8+/-4.1 kg/m(2)) randomized to placebo (n=84) or herbal treatment (n=83) at two outpatient weight control research units. MEASUREMENTS: Primary outcome measurements were changes in blood pressure, heart function and body weight. Secondary variables included body composition and metabolic changes. RESULTS: By last observation carried forward analysis, herbal vs placebo treatment decreased body weight (-5.3+/-5.0 vs. -2.6+/-3.2 kg, P<0.001), body fat (-4.3+/-3.3 vs. -2.7+/-2.8 kg, P=0.020) and LDL-cholesterol (-8+/-20 vs. 0+/-17 mg/dl, P=0.013), and increased HDL-cholesterol (+2.7+/-5.7 vs. -0.3+/-6.7 mg/dl, P=0.004). Herbal treatment produced small changes in blood pressure variables (+3 to -5 mm Hg, P< or =0.05), and increased heart rate (4+/-9 vs. -3+/-9 bpm, P<0.001), but cardiac arrhythmias were not increased (P>0.05). By self-report, dry mouth (P<0.01), heartburn (P<0.05), and insomnia (P<0.01) were increased and diarrhea decreased (P<0.05). Irritability, nausea, chest pain and palpitations did not differ, nor did numbers of subjects who withdrew. CONCLUSIONS: In this 6-month placebo-controlled trial, herbal ephedra/caffeine (90/192 mg/day) promoted body weight and body fat reduction and improved blood lipids without significant adverse events.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12032741
The safety and efficacy of a mixture of ephedrine (75-150mg), caffeine (150mg) and aspirin (330mg), in divided premeal doses, were investigated in 24 obese humans (mean BMI 37.0) in a randomized double blind placebo-controlled trial. Energy intake was not restricted. Overall weight loss over 8 weeks was 2.2kg for ECA vs. 0.7 kg for placebo (p < 0.05). 8 of 13 placebo subjects returned 5 months later and received ECA in an unblinded crossover. After 8 weeks, mean weight loss with ECA was 3.2 kg vs 1.3 kg for placebo (p = 0.036). 6 subjects continued on ECA for 7 to 26 months. After 5 months on ECA, average weight loss in 5 of these was 5.2 kg compared to 0.03 kg gained during 5 months between studies with no intervention (p = 0.03). The sixth subject lost 66 kg over 13 months by self-imposed caloric restriction. In all studies, no significant changes in heart rate, blood pressure, blood glucose, insulin, and cholesterol levels, and no differences in the frequency of side effects were found. ECA in these doses is thus well tolerated in otherwise healthy obese subjects, and supports modest, sustained weight loss even without prescribed caloric restriction, and may be more effective in conjunction with restriction of energy intake.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=8384187
A randomized double-blind placebo-controlled clinical trial of a product containing ephedrine, caffeine, and other ingredients from herbal sources for treatment of overweight and obesity in the absence of lifestyle treatment.
Coffey CS, Steiner D, Baker BA, Allison DB.
1Department of Biostatistics, University of Alabama at Birmingham, AL, USA.
OBJECTIVE:: To evaluate the efficacy and side effects of an herbal formulation to promote weight loss, as compared to placebo. DESIGN:: 12-week multicenter double-blind, placebo-controlled, randomized parallel groups design. Study conducted at three clinical sites in New York State. Subjects were randomized to receive either the 'active' product or a 'placebo' supplement for 12 weeks. Minimal steps were taken to influence lifestyle changes with regard to diet or exercise. SUBJECTS:: 102 overweight/obese (30<BMI</=39.9 kg/m(2)) volunteers between the ages of 18 and 65 y. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES:: Weight, percent body fat, fat mass, waist circumference, BMI, blood pressure, and pulse measured at 2 days, 1 week, 2 weeks, 4 weeks, 8 weeks, and 12 weeks postrandomization. RESULTS:: Subjects receiving the 'active' treatment experienced, on average, an additional 1.5 kg of weight loss compared with subjects receiving the placebo. In addition, subjects receiving the 'active' treatment experienced greater reductions in BMI and waist circumference over the 12-week period. No differences were observed with respect to percent body fat, fat mass, diastolic or systolic blood pressure, pulse, the occurrence of any adverse event, or the occurrence of any presumed treatment-related adverse event. Testing of the study product by two independent laboratories indicated that it had only approximately half of the intended amount of ephedrine alkaloids and caffeine. CONCLUSIONS:: Over the 12-week trial, subjects on the active treatment experienced significantly greater weight loss than subjects on placebo, without an increase in blood pressure, pulse, or the rate of adverse events. These benefits were achieved in the absence of any lifestyle treatment to change dietary or exercise behavior and with lower doses of ephedrine alkaloids and caffeine than those commonly utilized.International Journal of Obesity advance online publication, 31 August 2004; doi:10.1038/sj.ijo.0802784
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15356670
"In a randomized, placebo-controlled, double blind study, 180 obese patients were treated by diet (4.2 MJ/day) and either an ephedrine/caffeine combination (20mg/200mg), ephedrine (20mg), caffeine (200mg) or placebo 3 times a day for 24 weeks. 141 patients completed this part of the study. All medication was stopped between week 24-26 in order to catch any withdrawal symptoms. From week 26 to 50, 99 patients completed treatment with the ephedrine/caffeine compound in an open trial design, resulting in a statistically significant (p = 0.02) weight loss of 1.1kg. In another randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled 8 week study on obese subjects we found the mentioned compound showed lean body mass conserving properties. We conclude that the ephedrine/caffeine combination is effective in improving and maintaining weight loss, further it has lean body mass saving properties. The side effects are minor and transient and no withdrawal symptoms have been found."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=8384186
OBJECTIVE: To examine in overweight humans the short-term safety and efficacy for weight loss of an herbal supplement containing Ma Huang, Guarana and other ingredients. DESIGN: An 8 week randomized, double-blind placebo controlled study of a herbal dietary supplement (72 mg/day ephedrine alkaloids and 240 mg/day caffeine). SUBJECTS: Overweight men and women (body mass index, > or =29 and < or =35 kg/m2). MEASUREMENTS: The primary outcome variable was body weight change. Secondary variables included anthropometric, metabolic and cardiovascular changes. RESULTS: Sixty-seven subjects were randomized to either placebo (n=32) or active Ma Huang/Guarana (n=35). Twenty-four subjects in each group completed the study. Active treatment produced significantly (P<0.006) greater loss of weight (X+/-s.d.,-4.0+/-3.4 kg) and fat (-2.1+/-3.0% fat) over the 8-week treatment period than did placebo (-0.8+/-2.4 kg and 0.2+/-2.3% fat). Active treatment also produced greater reductions in hip circumference and serum triglyceride levels. Eight of the 35 actively treated subjects (23%) and none of the 32 placebo-treated control subjects withdrew from the protocol because of potential treatment-related effects. Dry mouth, insomnia and headache were the adverse symptoms reported most frequently by the herbal vs placebo group at the final evaluation visit. CONCLUSIONS: This herbal mixture of Ma Huang and Guarana effectively promoted short-term weight and fat loss. Safety with long-term use requires further investigation.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11319627
Does ephedrine promote weight loss in low-energy-adapted obese women?
Pasquali R, Cesari MP, Melchionda N, Stefanini C, Raitano A, Labo G.
A double-blind cross-over randomized study was performed in 10 selected adult overweight and obese (body mass index greater than 27) women who had been adapted to low-energy intake for a long period of time and who had shown difficulty in losing weight with conventional hypocaloric treatment. Combined with diet therapy (1000-1400 kcal/day), l(-)ephedrine hydrochloride (50 mg three times a day per os) or placebo were administered daily before each meal, after a period of stabilization with diet only for 1 month. Each pharmacological treatment lasted for 2 months. Weight loss was significantly (P less than 0.05) greater during the ephedrine period (2.41 +/- 0.61 kg) than during the placebo period (0.64 +/- 0.50 kg). None of the patients presented clinically important side-effects. These preliminary results seem to suggest a possible role for a thermogenic compound such as ephedrine in promoting weight loss in low-energy-adapted obese women.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=3301709
Efficacy and safety of ephedra and ephedrine for weight loss and athletic performance: a meta-analysis.
Shekelle PG, Hardy ML, Morton SC, Maglione M, Mojica WA, Suttorp MJ, Rhodes SL, Jungvig L, Gagne J.
Southern California Evidence-based Practice Center-RAND, Santa Monica, Calif 90407-2138, USA. shekelle@rand.org
CONTEXT: Ephedra and ephedrine sometimes are used for weight loss or enhanced athletic performance, but the efficacy and safety of these compounds are uncertain. OBJECTIVE: To assess the efficacy and safety of ephedra and ephedrine used for weight loss and enhanced athletic performance. DATA SOURCES: We searched 9 databases using the terms ephedra, ephedrine, adverse effect, side effect, efficacy, effective, and toxic. We included unpublished trials and non-English-language documents. Adverse events reported to the US Food and Drug Administration MedWatch program were assessed. STUDY SELECTION: Eligible studies were controlled trials of ephedra or ephedrine used for weight loss or athletic performance and case reports of adverse events associated with such use. Eligible studies for weight loss were human studies with at least 8 weeks of follow-up; and for athletic performance, those having no minimum follow-up. Eligible case reports documented that ephedra or ephedrine was consumed within 24 hours prior to an adverse event or that ephedrine or an associated product was found in blood or urine, and that other potential causes had been excluded. Of the 530 articles screened, 52 controlled trials and 65 case reports were included in the adverse events analysis. Of more than 18 000 other case reports screened, 284 underwent detailed review. DATA EXTRACTION: Two reviewers independently identified trials of efficacy and safety of ephedra and ephedrine on weight loss or athletic performance; disagreements were resolved by consensus. Case reports were reviewed with explicit and implicit methods. DATA SYNTHESIS: No weight loss trials assessed duration of treatment greater than 6 months. Pooled results for trials comparing placebo with ephedrine (n = 5), ephedrine and caffeine (n = 12), ephedra (n = 1), and ephedra and herbs containing caffeine (n = 4) yielded estimates of weight loss (more than placebo) of 0.6 (95% confidence interval, 0.2-1.0), 1.0 (0.7-1.3), 0.8 (0.4-1.2), and 1.0 (0.6-1.3) kg/mo, respectively. Sensitivity analyses did not substantially alter the latter 3 results. No trials of ephedra and athletic performance were found; 7 trials of ephedrine were too heterogeneous to synthesize. Safety data from 50 trials yielded estimates of 2.2- to 3.6-fold increases in odds of psychiatric, autonomic, or gastrointestinal symptoms, and heart palpitations. Data are insufficient to draw conclusions about adverse events occurring at a rate less than 1.0 per thousand. The majority of case reports are insufficiently documented to allow meaningful assessment. CONCLUSIONS: Ephedrine and ephedra promote modest short-term weight loss (approximately 0.9 kg/mo more than placebo) in clinical trials. There are no data regarding long-term weight loss, and evidence to support use of ephedra for athletic performance is insufficient. Use of ephedra or ephedrine and caffeine is associated with increased risk of psychiatric, autonomic, or gastrointestinal symptoms, and heart palpitations.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12672771
Comparison of the acute pharmacodynamic responses after single doses of ephedrine or sibutramine in healthy, overweight volunteers.
Persky AM, Ng C, Song MH, Lancaster ME, Balderson DE, Paulik MA, Brouwer KL.
Division of Drug Delivery and Disposition, School of Pharmacy, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, Chapel Hill, NC 27599-7360, USA.
OBJECTIVE: With an increase in the incidence of obesity, tremendous effort has been devoted to the development of weight loss agents and the prospective surrogate markers of both a product's efficacy and safety. The objective of the present study was to compare the pharmacodynamic responses of ephedrine and sibutramine using surrogate markers of weight loss potential and potential adverse events. DESIGN AND SUBJECTS: The study was designed as a 5-way, randomized, double-blinded, placebo-controlled trial with 3 single doses of ephedrine sulfate (0.25, 0.5 and 1 mg x kg(-1)) followed by an open-labeled sibutramine (10 mg) treatment. Healthy, mildly overweight (BMI = 25) subjects were administered the respective treatment and pharmacokinetic and pharmacodynamic measurements (body surface temperature, resting metabolic rate, blood pressure, heart rate, glucose, glycerol, nonesterified fatty acids, triglycerides) were obtained for 8 hours post dose and for an additional 4 measurements during the sibutramine treatment period. RESULTS: Sibutramine treatment significantly increased resting metabolic rate compared to the placebo condition. Ephedrine significantly increased heart rate, systolic blood pressure and glucose but did not significantly affect other measurements. CONCLUSION: Both sibutramine and ephedrine have been shown to have weight loss potential, however, they elicit different metabolic and biochemical responses after a single dose. The nontherapeutic responses from these types of compounds may serve as a screening tool for the development of agents in the treatment of obesity.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15366324
- Liittynyt
- 25.4.2003
- Viestejä
- 803
- Ikä
- 52
Kenen mielestä tämä lentoemon postaus pitää paikkansa?Olis helpompi päättää kumpaa ostaa.Siis Thermogenic Boosteria vai Stack Boosteria?lentoemo sanoi:Moneskohan kerta, kun tähän vaivaudun, mutta menköön...
Eli olet oikeassa siinä, että Thermogenicissä on enemmän Ma Huangia (ja täten myös vaikuttavaa efedriiniä), kuin Stack Boosterissa. Jälkimmäisen tehokkaampi vaikutus perustuu puhtaasti efe-cofe suhteeseen, jollaisesta Thermogenicin kohdalla ei voida puhuakkaan, sillä kyseinen valmiste sisältää vain olemattomat 18mg cofea. Eli nyt kun käytämme vähän omaa järkeä, ja hommaamme purkin Thermogenic Boosteria(30mg efukkaa/kapseli), ja ostamme lähimmästä apteekista purkin cofe-tabuja, niin olemme saaneet toimivamman valmisteen, kuin Stack Booster, ja kaiken lisäksi säästäneet hieman rahaakin. :D
- Liittynyt
- 30.8.2002
- Viestejä
- 587
Pointti on nimenomaan se, ettei ole olemassa pitkäaikaistutkimuksia ECA:n tehosta painonhallinnassa. Jakob olet varmaan lukenut noi jutut, ja tiedät että ECA:n painoa vähentävä vaikutus koehenkilöillä perustuu a) vähentyneeseen ruuan kulutukseen (aivan kuten omalla kohdallasi) ja b) termogeeniseen efektiin. Eli sinun kohdallasi tuo nälän tunteen vähentyminen on varmaankin yksi syy positiiviseen mielikuvaan tuotteesta, toisaalta "rasva tuntuu tirisevän paremmin" kuullostaa nimenomaan placebolta. Mun tietääkseni mistään "rasvaa polttavasta, lipolyyttisestä" vaikutuksesta ei ole mitään in vivo evidenssiä. Tosin lisääntyneellä termogeeneesillä _saattaa_ olla vähentävä vaikutus elimistön rasvan kannalta. Tuossa uusimmassa jutussa (Coffeye et al.) sanotaan "No differences were observed with respect to percent body fat, fat mass...", eli myös ristiriitaisia tuloksia löytyy verrattuna vaikkapa noihin Boozerin vastaaviin. Mun varauksellisuus ECA:n "rasvanpoltto-ominaisuuksiin" perustuu, a) pitkäaikaistutkimuksien puutteeseen, joissa myös raportoidut sivuvaikutukset on mukana (eli onko valmisteiden plus/miinus tilasto plussan puolella), b) tietoon siitä, että osa painoa vähentävästä vaikutuksesta johtuu ruokahalua hillitsevästä ominaisuudesta.
- Liittynyt
- 23.3.2004
- Viestejä
- 1 760
- Ikä
- 38
JAMR, kerroppas joku toinen yhtä turvallinen ja toimiva tuote kuin EC.
Siis sellainen jota on saatavilla mattimeikäläisille..
Oletko muuten ajatellut että tuosta EC-stackista on hyötyä etenkin keto- ja matalahiilarisella dieetillä, sille sen avulla jaksaa vetää sekä aerobiset- että punttitreenit kovalla sykkeellä läpi! Ja taas rasvanpalaminen voimistuu
Siis sellainen jota on saatavilla mattimeikäläisille..
Oletko muuten ajatellut että tuosta EC-stackista on hyötyä etenkin keto- ja matalahiilarisella dieetillä, sille sen avulla jaksaa vetää sekä aerobiset- että punttitreenit kovalla sykkeellä läpi! Ja taas rasvanpalaminen voimistuu
- Liittynyt
- 23.3.2004
- Viestejä
- 1 760
- Ikä
- 38
Mahuang tuotteista.. onkos ketään koettanut ripped maxia?
Kokeilin hätäsesti searchia mutten löytänyt..
Kokeilin hätäsesti searchia mutten löytänyt..
- Liittynyt
- 7.3.2003
- Viestejä
- 407
- Ikä
- 42
Entäs sitte ton mahuang + kofeiini yhdistelmän teho pitkäaikais käytössä? Kun nyt oon pari kk tässä jo diettaillu ja nappaillu noita melkeenpä jokapäivä, poislukien tankkauspäivät, niin tietäiskö kukaan jatkuuko noitten rasvaapolttava vaikutus vai "tottuuko" kroppa noihin niin paljon että mitään hyötyä noista ei enää ole? Kofeiinin vaikutuksen laskun nyt huomaa jo parinpäivän päästä kun sitä ottaa 6tabua päivässä, mut en sitte osaa kuiteskaan arvioida sitä rasvaapolttavaa vaikutusta, paino on kyllä laskenu ihan tasasesti mutta tulipa nyt vaan pohdiskeltua tätäki...
- Liittynyt
- 12.8.2002
- Viestejä
- 2 164
SuperStar sanoi:
Ei totu. Piristävä ja ruokahalua vaimentava vaikutus vähenee, mutta rasvan palamiseen sillä ei ole merkitystä. Joissain tutkimuksissa teho jopa parani pitkäaikaisessa käytössä (joskin kauan jatkettaessa kannattaa ottaa selvää onko sillä vaikutusta eturauhasen liikakasvuun.)
