Massa ja juoksu?

[Vilu]

Jos lähellä (jälkeen) punttitreenin tekee niin AMPK vs mTOR -välisen kädenväännön kautta häiritsee punttihommia. Jalkojen palautuksen kun voi hoitaa muutoinkin kuin lenkkeilemällä.

Voi toki, enkä seuraavana päivänä juoksisikaan, mutta koitin sanoa, että tämmösellä peruspunttaajalla tuskin lihaskasvua kauheesti häiritsee muutama lenkki viikossa, kunhan vaan ymmärretään syödä.

 

[Fireball]

Nämäkö saa siis aikaiseksi vain lenkkipolulla? Ei esim. painoharjoittelulla ja oikealla ruokavaliolla? Painoharjoittelua kun on myös muutakin muotoa kuin neljäkertaakolmetoistoajakotiin.

No oletetaan että sitä tekee paljon supersarjoja, ja tekee esim 4-jakoista voima-hypertophia treeniä ja kohottaa sykettä vuoropäivin. Tulos on lähes sama kuin esim lenkkeilemällä. Mutta ei kuitenkaan ole sama, piste.



Olen muuten täysin samaa mieltä kaverin kanssa (paitsi että nostaminen on mun mielestä parasta liikuntaa.)

 

[ysikymppinen]

Luin kyllä, että pitkät juoksut nostaa kortisolitasoja pitkäaikaisesti, jopa 24-36 tuntia tais olla.

Maraton treeni, yes.

Jos nostaa, niin kyse on minimaalisista määristä verrattuna HIIT:iin, joka nostaa niitä selvästi.

Vain horkka nostaa noita selvästi.

Tässä on kyse muutman tunnin akuutista noususta.

JA

J Sports Sci. 1995 Aug;13(4):305-11.
Influence of aerobic versus anaerobic exercise on the relationship between reproductive hormones in men.
Hackney AC, Premo MC, McMurray RG.
SourceApplied Physiology Laboratory, University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill 27599, USA.

Abstract
This study examined the effects of equal anaerobic and aerobic total work outputs on the relationship between reproductive hormones in men. Nine subjects performed three randomized trials on separate days: (1) 1 h period of rest (control), (2) 1 h continuous aerobic exercise (65% VO2 max), and (3) 1 h intermittent anaerobic exercise (which included 2 min exercise periods at 110% VO2 max). The total work output of the aerobic and anaerobic trials were equated. For the 8 h after each experimental trial, blood samples were collected hourly and analysed for testosterone, luteinizing hormone (LH), follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH), prolactin and cortisol. Diet, physical activity and circadian influences were all controlled. Compared with the control, the aerobic and anaerobic trials significantly (P < 0.05) elevated testosterone, prolactin and cortisol; however, these changes were transient and returned to control levels within 1-2 h of recovery. Neither exercise produced significant (P > 0.05) changes from control for LH and FSH. The area under the hormonal response curves (AUC) was calculated for the 8-h recovery period. The testosterone and LH AUC results did not differ (P > 0.05) among the trials (the FSH AUC was not calculated). The prolactin AUC for the aerobic and anaerobic trials were greater (P < 0.01) than the control trial. The cortisol AUC for the anaerobic trial was greater than both the control and aerobic trials (P < 0.05), but the aerobic and control trials did not differ from one another.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)

PMID: 7474044

J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2008 Dec;93(12):4711-20. Epub 2008 Sep 9.
Effects of continuous versus intermittent exercise, obesity, and gender on growth hormone secretion.
Weltman A, Weltman JY, Watson Winfield DD, Frick K, Patrie J, Kok P, Keenan DM, Gaesser GA, Veldhuis JD.
SourceDepartment of Human Services, University of Virginia, Charlottesville, Virginia 22904, USA. alw2v@virginia.edu

Abstract
CONTEXT: Obesity attenuates spontaneous GH secretion and the GH response to exercise. Obese individuals often have low fitness levels, limiting their ability to complete a typical 30-min bout of continuous exercise. An alternative regimen in obese subjects may be shorter bouts of exercise interspersed throughout the day.

OBJECTIVE: The objective of the study was to examine whether intermittent and continuous exercise interventions evoke similar patterns of 24-h GH secretion and whether responses are attenuated in obese subjects or affected by gender.

DESIGN: This was a repeated-measures design in which each subject served as their own control.

SETTING: This study was conducted at the University of Virginia General Clinical Research Center.

SUBJECTS: Subjects were healthy nonobese (n = 15) and obese (n = 14) young adults.

INTERVENTIONS: Subjects were studied over 24 h at the General Clinical Research Center on three occasions: control, one 30-min bout of exercise, and three 10-min bouts of exercise.

MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Twenty-four hour GH secretion was measured.

RESULTS: Compared with unstimulated 24-h GH secretion, both intermittent and continuous exercise, at constant exercise intensity, resulted in severalfold elevation of 24-h integrated serum GH concentrations in young adults. Basal and pulsatile modes of GH secretion were attenuated both at rest and during exercise in obese subjects.

CONCLUSIONS: The present data suggest that continuous and intermittent exercise training should be comparably effective in increasing 24-h GH secretion.
PMID: 18782875

J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2009 Jun;94(6):1979-86. Epub 2009 Mar 24.
Effects of exercise training intensity on nocturnal growth hormone secretion in obese adults with the metabolic syndrome.
Irving BA, Weltman JY, Patrie JT, Davis CK, Brock DW, Swift D, Barrett EJ, Gaesser GA, Weltman A.
SourceDepartment of Human Services, Center for the Study of Complementary and Alternative Therapies, University of Virginia, Charlottesville, Virginia 22908, USA.

Abstract
CONTEXT: Abdominal adiposity is associated with reduced spontaneous GH secretion, and an increased incidence of the metabolic syndrome, type 2 diabetes, and cardiovascular disease. Exercise training increases GH secretion, induces abdominal visceral fat loss, and has been shown to improve the cardiometabolic risk factor profile. However, little is known about the effects of endurance training intensity on spontaneous GH release in obese individuals.

OBJECTIVE: Our objective was to examine the effects of 16 wk endurance training on spontaneous 12-h overnight GH secretion in adults with the metabolic syndrome.

DESIGN AND SETTING: This randomized, controlled exercise intervention was conducted at the University of Virginia.

PARTICIPANTS: A total of 34 adults with the metabolic syndrome (mean +/- sem: age: 49.1 +/- 1.8 yr) participated.

INTERVENTION: Participants were randomized to one of three groups for 16 wk: no exercise training (control), low-intensity exercise training, or high-intensity training.

MAIN OUTCOME MEASURE: Change in nocturnal integrated GH area under the curve (AUC) was calculated.

RESULTS: Both exercise training conditions augmented within-group nocturnal GH AUC pretrain to post-training (low-intensity exercise training approximately (upward arrow) 49%, P < 0.05; and high-intensity training approximately (upward arrow) 65%, P < 0.01), and these changes were also greater than the changes in the control group (P < 0.01). The change in nocturnal GH AUC was inversely associated with the change in fat mass across the entire sample (r = -0.34; P = 0.051; n=34) but was not significantly associated with the change in abdominal visceral fat (r = 0.02; P = 0.920; n = 34).

CONCLUSIONS: Sixteen wk of supervised exercise training in adults with the metabolic syndrome increases spontaneous nocturnal GH secretion independent of exercise training intensity.
PMID: 19318453

Appl Physiol Nutr Metab. 2008 Aug;33(4):706-12.
Growth hormone responses to 3 different exercise bouts in 18- to 25- and 40- to 50-year-old men.
Gilbert KL, Stokes KA, Hall GM, Thompson D.
SourceDepartment of Sport and Exercise Science, School for Health, University of Bath, Claverton Down, Bath, UK.

Abstract
Exercise is a potent stimulus for growth hormone (GH) release, although aging appears to attenuate this response. The aim of this study was to investigate GH responses to different exercise stimuli in young and early middle-aged men. Eight men aged 18-25 y and 8 men aged 40-50 y completed 3 trials, at least 7 days apart, in a random order: 30 s cycle-ergometer sprint (sprint), 30 min resistance exercise bout (resistance), 30 min cycle at 70% maximal oxygen consumption (endurance). Blood samples were taken pre-, during, and post-exercise, and area under the GH vs. time curve was calculated for a total of 120 min. Mean blood lactate concentrations and percentage heart rate maximum at which the participants were working were not different between groups in any of the trials. In both groups, blood lactate concentrations were significantly lower in the endurance trial than in the sprint and resistance trials. There were no significant differences in resting GH concentration between groups or trials. GH AUC was significantly greater in the young group than the early middle-aged group, in both sprint (531 (+/-347) vs. 81 (+/-54) microg.L-1 per 120 min, p = 0.003) and endurance trials (842 (+/-616) vs. 177 (+/-137) microg.L-1 per 120 min, p = 0.010). Endurance exercise elicits a greater GH response than sprint and resistance exercise; however, aging per se, factors associated with aging, or an inability to achieve a sufficient absolute exercise intensity results in a smaller GH response to an exercise stimulus in early middle-aged men.

PMID: 18641713

J Appl Physiol. 2004 Feb;96(2):531-9. Epub 2003 Sep 26.
Effect of training status and exercise mode on endogenous steroid hormones in men.
Tremblay MS, Copeland JL, Van Helder W.
SourceCollege of Kinesiology, University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada. mark.tremblay@statcan.ca

Abstract
The purpose of this study was to determine the acute anabolic and catabolic hormone response to endurance and resistance exercise bouts of equal volume in subjects with differing training status. Twenty-two healthy men were recruited who were either resistance trained (n = 7), endurance trained (n = 8), or sedentary (n = 7). Three sessions were completed: a resting session, a 40-min run at 50-55% maximal oxygen consumption, and a resistance exercise session. Expired gases were monitored continuously during exercise, and the endurance and resistance exercise sessions were individually matched for caloric expenditure. Blood samples were drawn before exercise and 1, 2, 3, and 4 h after the start of the exercise. Plasma was analyzed for luteinizing hormone, dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate, cortisol, and free and total testosterone. Androgens increased in response to exercise, particularly resistance exercise, whereas cortisol only increased after resistance exercise. Dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate levels increased during the resistance exercise session and remained elevated during recovery in the resistance-trained subjects. Endurance-trained subjects displayed less pronounced changes in hormone concentrations in response to exercise than resistance-trained subjects. After an initial postexercise increase, there was a significant decline in free and total testosterone during recovery from resistance exercise (P < 0.05), particularly in resistance-trained subjects. On the basis of the results of this study, it appears that the endogenous hormone profile of men is more dependent on exercise mode or intensity than exercise volume as measured by caloric expenditure. The relatively catabolic environment observed during the resistance session may indicate an intensity-rather than a mode-dependent response.

PMID: 14514704

Eur J Appl Physiol. 2005 Aug;94(5-6):505-13. Epub 2005 Jun 8.
Influence of exercise duration on post-exercise steroid hormone responses in trained males.
Tremblay MS, Copeland JL, Van Helder W.
SourceStatistics Canada Tunney's Pasture, Main Building Room 2200, Section S, Ottawa, ON, K1A0T6, Canada. mark.tremblay@statcan.ca

Abstract
The purpose of this study was to systematically evaluate the effect of endurance exercise duration on hormone concentrations in male subjects while controlling for exercise intensity and training status. Eight endurance-trained males (19-49 years) completed a resting control session and three treadmill runs of 40, 80, and 120 min at 55% of VO2max . Blood samples were drawn before the session and then 1, 2, 3 and 4 h after the start of the run. Plasma was analyzed for luteinizing hormone (LH), dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate (DHEAS), cortisol, and free and total testosterone. LH was significantly greater at rest compared to the running sessions. Both free and total testosterone generally increased in the first hour of the 80 and 120 min runs and then showed a trend for a steady decline for the next 3 h of recovery. Dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate increased in a dose-response manner with the greatest increases observed during the 120-min run, followed by the 80-min run. Cortisol only increased in response to the 120-min run and showed a decline across time in all other sessions. The ratios of anabolic hormones (testosterone and DHEAS) to cortisol were greater during the resting session and the 40-min run compared to the longer runs. The results indicate that exercise duration has independent effects on the hormonal response to endurance exercise. At a low intensity, longer duration runs are necessary to stimulate increased levels of testosterone, DHEAS and cortisol and beyond 80 min of running there is a shift to a more catabolic hormonal environment.

PMID: 15942766

Tottakai. Mutta aerobista voi tehdä monin tavoin: sitä kestävyystyyppistä (en usko, että monikaan bodari harrastaa tätä?), kävelyä (tai muuta matalan intensiteetin liikuntaa) ja HIIT:tiä.
Miks pitäis offilla koittaa pitää painoa alhaalla? Offillahan hankitaan massaa. Vai puhuitko aerobisen hyödyistä vaan noin yleensä? Kaikkihan ne tietää ;) Tai siis ihan hieno juttu, että kerroit, mutta laitoit ton vaan vähä outoon väliin..

Juu sori, ilmaisin itseäni aika perseelleen siinä. Se on vain ihan yleinen etu. Olisi ollut parempi jos olisin laittanut ''auttaa partitioinnissa (energia menee lihaksiin, ei rasvaan) ja saa syödä vähän enemmän.

Hieman nyt on paradoksaalista vinkkiä. Kannatan tota ekaa lausetta, sillä se vihjaa kävelyyn tai esim. uintiin. Tuo toka lause taas antaa ymmärtää, että pitäisi olla reilusti aerobisen kynnyksen yli ja se on jo sitten reipasta lenkkeilyä (=kestävyystreeniä). Jos tarkotuksena on bodailu/massan hankinta, niin unohtaisin nuo välimallin kestävyystreenit ihan kokonaan ja keskittyisin ainoastaan kävelyyn ja HIIT:iin. Kävelyllä on ihan samat edulliset vaikutukset sydämelle, kunnolle ym. kuin maratoonailulla. Jälkimmäinen vaan on salituloksista pois.

Yes.

HIIT:issä vain sykkeet voivat olla juuri siellä anaerobisen kynnyksen paikkeilla, riippuen miten en tehdään.

Ei HIIT:ti oo kestävyystreeniä, vaan nopeus/maksimivoimatreeniä. Siinä aktivoidaan tyypin II lihassolut tuottamaan maksimivoimaa (nopeutta) mahdollisimman nopeasti, mutta lyhytkestoisesti. Mikä vastaa toimintaa lihaksissa salitreenissä.

Riippuu miten ne suoritetaan.

Ootko nyt sekottanut HIIT:in johonki ihan muuhun? HIIT:in ideahan on tehdä lyhyitä sarjoja, yhtä pitkillä tai pitemmillä palautuksilla. Mutta miksi matalammalla intensiteetillä? Ei missään nimessä. Intensiteettihän on koko homman idea.

En ole sekoittanut.

Jos nuo palautukset ovat juuri 1:1 (esim. 30/30 sek.) niin silloin muutaman setin jälkeen aletaan jo treenaamaan enemmän kestävyyttä -> tehon takia rekrytoidaan tyypin II lihassoluja. Ja myös huolettaa esim. jalkojen palautuminen kun on puntit ja kaikki muut mukana.

Huippu-urheilijatkin tekevät yleisesti intervalleja vain sen 2-3 kertaa viikossa. Riippuen tosin lajista.

En todellakaan ole HIIT:iä vastaan. Niissä pitää vain ottaa muistiin ohjelmointi ja että ei tee liian kauan ja liian kovaa.

Miksi intensiteetti on koko homman idea? Huippu-urheilijatkin käyttävät kovemppia intervalleja suhteellisen vähän, kuukausi, pari ennen kisoja, jos sitäkään.