Palautusjuoma on turha!

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Jos treenin jälkeen saa tunnin sisään kunnon aterian, niin silloin en välttämättä "tuhlaisi" rahoja palautusjuomiin ym. Itsellä kuitenkin yleensä 2x treenit päivässä. Aamutreeni loppuu klo 9 jälkeen, lounasta pääsen nauttimaan klo 11 aikoihin. Se, että saan heti aamureenin jälkeen hiilaria, auttaa iltapäivän treeneissä jaksamiseen verrattuna tilanteeseen, jossa odottelisin lounaaseen tyhjin vatsoin.. Se, miten proteiinin ottaminen/ottamatta jättäminen vaikuttaa minun tapauksessa, en osaa sanoa.

Mun mielestä palautusjuomaa ei voi yleisesti julistaa "turhaksi". Joissakin tapauksissa varmaan melko merkityksetön onkin, mutta toisaalta taas joissakin tapauksissa, kuten omassa, palautusjuoma on tärkeä osa päivän ateriarytmiä.
 
10% ALENNUS KOODILLA PAKKOTOISTO
VARSINKIN

Kyllä se kuormittaa munuaisia muutenkin, eikä se voi tehdä hyvää. Ongelmia sen kanssa? Ja puhun edelleenkin järjettömistä määristä (500g+)
Joku tykkäsi aiemmasta viestistäni ja näin tämän mielipiteesi, joka on pakko korjata ettei kenellekään jäisi väärinkäsityksiä. Ärsyynnyn helposti, kun täällä esitetään täyttä brosciencea faktatietona.

Eli ensinnäkään noin suurista määristä ei juuri tutkimuksia löydy ja edelleenkään ei ole mitään todisteita siitä, että korkeaproteiininen ruokavalio vaikuttaisi jollain tapaa negatiivisesti munuaisiin.

The kidneys are involved in nitrogen excretion, and thus it has been theorized by some that a high nitrogen intake (protein) may cause stress to the kidneys. Additionally, low protein diets have typically been recommended to people who suffer from renal disorders. To conclude that a high protein intake damages the kidney is very tenuous however. A study examining bodybuilders with protein intakes of 2.8g/kg vs. well trained athletes with moderate protein intakes revealed no significant differences in kidney function between the groups.1 Additionally, a review of the scientific literature on protein intake and renal function concluded that “there is no reason to restrict protein in healthy individuals.” Furthermore, the review concluded that not only does a low protein intake NOT prevent the decline in renal function with age, it may actually be the major cause of the decline!2 This conclusion is supported by the fact that low proteins diets have NOT been shown to be beneficial for blunting the progression of chronic renal failure.3

-Layne Norton, Ph.D.in nutritional science with a specialization in skeletal muscle protein metabolism at the University of Illinois

1. Poortmans JR, Dellalieux O. Do regular high-protein diets have potential health risks on kidney function in athletes? Int J Sports Nutr 2000;10:28-38.
2. Walser M. Effects of protein intake on renal function and on the development of renal disease. In: The Role of Protein and Amino Acids in Sustaining and Enhancing Performance. Committee on Military Nutrition Research, Institute of Medicine. Washington, DC: National Academies Press, 1999, pp. 137-154.
3. Klahr S, Levey AS, Beck GJ et al. The effects of dietary protein restriction and blood-pressure control on the progression of chronic renal failure. N Engl J Med 1994;330:877-884.
 
Maksaan voi vaikuttaa. :)
 
Samalta sivulta ( http://www.biolayne.com/uncategorized/myths-surrounding-high-protein-diet-safety/ ) vielä:

There is absolutely no evidence to support the notion that a high protein intake is detrimental to the liver. Protein is needed to repair liver tissue and for the conversion of fats to lipoproteins so that they may be removed from the liver.4 Amino acids are also the main fuel source for the liver. Additionally, in alcoholic liver disease a high protein diet has been shown to improve liver function and reduce mortality and BCAAs are also being investigated as a treatment for liver disease.5,6 It could even be postulated that in the case of liver damage/disease a high protein diet may be required in order to repair liver tissue damage and to aid in recovery.

4. Navder KP, Lieber CS. Nutrition and alcoholism. In: Bronner, F. ed. Nutritional Aspects and Clinical Management of ChronicDisorders and Diseases. Boca Raton, FL: CRC Press, 2003, pp. 307-320.
5. Mendellhall C, Moritz T, Roselle GA et al. A study of oral nutrition support with oxadrolone in malnourished patients with alcoholic hepatitis: results of a Department of Veterans Affairs Cooperative Study. Hepatology 1993;17:564-576.
6. Suzuki K, Kato A, Iwai M. Branched-chain amino acid treatment in patients with liver cirrhosis. Hepatol Res. 2004 Dec;30S:25-29.
 
Korkataan neitsyys tälle foorumille :) Paljon jengi näköjään käyttää tuota rushia ja recovery feedia ja niiden tuoteselostetta kun katselee niin eikös käytännössä samat aineet saisi esim. Anabolic overridesta ja ei tarvitsisi kahta eri ainetta ostella? Ei nyt pilkulleen samoja, mutta lähelle kuitenkin. Itse olen ainakin tuon palkkarin itselleni todennut toimivaksi, kun syömään en yleensä treenin jälkeen pääse nopeasti ja muutenkin kroppa huutaa treenin jälkeen jotain täydennystä.
 
Haa, löysin vihdoin sen mitä etsinkin:

Changes in human muscle protein synthesis after resistance exercise

A. Chesley,
J. D. MacDougall,
M. A. Tarnopolsky,
S. A. Atkinson, and
K. Smith

+ Author Affiliations

Department of Physical Education, McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada.

Abstract

The purpose of this study was to investigate the magnitude and time course for changes in muscle protein synthesis (MPS) after a single bout of resistance exercise. Two groups of six male subjects performed heavy resistance exercise with the elbow flexors of one arm while the opposite arm served as a control. MPS from exercised (ex) and control (con) biceps brachii was assessed 4 (group A) and 24 h (group B) postexercise by the increment in L-[1–13C]leucine incorporation into muscle biopsy samples. In addition, RNA capacity and RNA activity were determined to assess whether transcriptional and/or translational processes affected MPS. MPS was significantly elevated in biceps of the ex compared with the con arms of both groups (group A, ex 0.1007 +/- 0.0330 vs. con 0.067 +/- 0.0204%/h; group B ex 0.0944 +/- 0.0363 vs. con 0.0452 +/- 0.0126%/h). RNA capacity was unchanged in the ex biceps of both groups relative to the con biceps, whereas RNA activity was significantly elevated in the ex biceps of both groups (group A, ex 0.19 +/- 0.10 vs. con 0.12 +/- 0.05 micrograms protein.h-1.microgram-1 total RNA; group B, ex 0.18 +/- 0.06 vs. con 0.08 +/- 0.02 micrograms protein.h-1.microgram-1 total RNA). The results indicate that a single bout of heavy resistance exercise can increase biceps MPS for up to 24 h postexercise. In addition, these increases appear to be due to changes in posttranscriptional events.

http://jap.physiology.org/content/73/4/1383.abstract

Ja tätäkin etsin, mikä liittyi muistaakseni tohon maksaan/munuaisiin(en ehdi tarkistamaan):

A Review of Issues of Dietary Protein Intake in Humans

Considerable debate has taken place over the safety and validity of increased protein intakes for both weight control and muscle synthesis. The advice to consume diets high in protein by some health professionals, media and popular diet books is given despite a lack of scientific data on the safety of increasing protein consumption. The key issues are the rate at which the gastrointestinal tract can absorb amino acids from dietary proteins (1.3 to 10 g/h) and the liver's capacity to deaminate proteins and produce urea for excretion of excess nitrogen. The accepted level of protein requirement of 0.8g ∙ kg-1 ∙ d-1 is based on structural requirements and ignores the use of protein for energy metabolism. High protein diets on the other hand advocate excessive levels of protein intake on the order of 200 to 400 g/d, which can equate to levels of approximately 5 g ∙ kg-1 ∙ d-1, which may exceed the liver?s capacity to convert excess nitrogen to urea. Dangers of excessive protein, defined as when protein constitutes > 35% of total energy intake, include hyperaminoacidemia, hyperammonemia, hyperinsulinemia nausea, diarrhea, and even death (the ?rabbit starvation syndrome?). The three different measures of defining protein intake, which should be viewed together are: absolute intake (g/d), intake related to body weight (g ∙ kg-1 ∙ d-1) and intake as a fraction of total energy (percent energy). A suggested maximum protein intake based on bodily needs, weight control evidence, and avoiding protein toxicity would be approximately of 25% of energy requirements at approximately 2 to 2.5 g ∙ kg-1 ∙ d-1, corresponding to 176 g protein per day for an 80 kg individual on a 12,000kJ/d diet. This is well below the theoretical maximum safe intake range for an 80 kg person (285 to 365 g/d).

Amino acid catabolism must occur in a way that does not elevate blood ammonia (26). Catabolism of amino acids occurs in the liver, which contains the urea cycle (26), however the rate of conversion of amino acid derived ammonia to urea is limited. Rudman et al. (27)

Early findings suggest that rapidly absorbed proteins such as free amino acids and WP, transiently and moderately inhibit protein breakdown (39, 53), yet stimulate protein synthesis by 68% [using nonoxidative leucine disposal (NOLD) as an index of protein synthesis] (54). Casein protein has been shown to inhibit protein breakdown by 30% for a 7-h postprandial period, and only slightly increase protein synthesis (38, 54). Rapidly absorbed amino acids despite stimulating greater protein synthesis, also stimulate greater amino acid oxidation, and hence results in a lower net protein gain, than slowly absorbed protein (54). Leucine balance, a measurable endpoint for protein balance, is indicated in Figure 1, which shows slowly absorbed amino acids (~ 6 to 7 g/h), such as CAS and 2.3 g of WP repeatedly taken orally every 20 min (RPT-WP), provide significantly better protein balance than rapidly absorbed amino acids (39, 54).

The misconception in the fitness and sports industries is that rapidly absorbed protein, such as WP and AA promote better protein anabolism. As the graph shows, slowly absorbed protein such as CAS and small amounts of WP (RPT-WP) provide four and nine times more protein synthesis than WP.

This ?slow? and ?fast? protein concept provides some clearer evidence that although human physiology may allow for rapid and increased absorption rate of amino acids, as in the case of WP (8 to 10 g/h), this fast absorption is not strongly correlated with a ?maximal protein balance,? as incorrectly interpreted by fitness enthusiasts, athletes, and bodybuilders.

Using the findings of amino acid absorption rates shown in Table 2 (using leucine balance as a measurable endpoint for protein balance), a maximal amino acid intake measured by the inhibition of proteolysis and increase in postprandial protein gain, may only be ~ 6 to 7 g/h (as described by RPT-WP, and casein) (38), which corresponds to a maximal protein intake of 144 to 168 g/d.

The rate of amino acid absorption from protein is quite slow (~ 5 to 8 g/h, from Table 2) when compared to that of other macronutrients, with fatty acids at ~ 0.175 g ? kg-1 ? h-1 (~ 14 g/h) (55) and glucose 60 to 100 g/h (0.8 to 1.2 g carbohydrate ? kg-1 ? h-1) for an 80 kg individual (56). From our earlier calculations elucidating the maximal amounts of protein intake from MRUS, an 80 kg subject could theoretically tolerate up to 301 to 365 g of protein per day, but this would require an absorption rate of 12.5 to 15 g/h, an unlikely level given the results of the studies reported above.

The consumption of large amounts of protein by athletes and bodybuilders is not a new practice (13). Recent evidence suggests that increased protein intakes for endurance and strength-trained athletes can increase strength and recovery from exercise (14, 80, 81). In healthy adult men consuming small frequent meals providing protein at 2.5 g ? kg-1 ? d-1, there was a decreased protein breakdown, and increased protein synthesis of up to 63%, compared with intakes of 1g ? kg-1 ? d-1 (16). Subjects receiving 1g ? kg-1 ? d-1 underwent muscle protein breakdown with less evident changes in muscle protein synthesis. Some evidence suggests, however, that a high protein diet increases leucine oxidation (82, 83), while other data demonstrate that the slower digestion rate of protein (38, 54), and the timing of protein ingestion (with resistance training) (84) promote muscle protein synthesis.

Absorption rates of amino acids from the gut can vary from 1.4 g/h for raw egg white to 8 to 10 g/h for whey protein isolate. Slowly absorbed amino acids such as casein (~ 6 g/h) and repeated small doses of whey protein (2.9 g per 20 min, totaling ~ 7 g/h) promote leucine balance, a marker of protein balance, superior to that of a single dose of 30 g of whey protein or free amino acids which are both rapidly absorbed (8 to 10 g/h), and enhance amino acid oxidation. This gives us an initial understanding that although higher protein intakes are physiologically possible, and tolerable by the human body, they may not be functionally optimal in terms of building and preserving body protein. The general, although incorrect consensus among athletes and bodybuilders, is that rapid protein absorption corresponds to greater muscle building.

From the limited data available on amino acid absorption rates, and the physiological parameters of urea synthesis, the maximal safe protein intakes for humans have been estimated at ~ 285 g/d for an 80 kg male. It is not the intention of this article, however, to promote the consumption of large amounts of protein, but rather to prompt an investigation into what are the parameters of human amino acid kinetics. In the face of the rising tide of obesity in the Western world where energy consumption overrides energy expenditure, a more prudent and practical approach, which may still provide favorable outcomes, is a 25% protein energy diet, which would provide 118 g protein on an 8000 kJ/d diet at 1.5 g ? kg-1 ? d-1 for an 80 kg individual (Table 2).

Little data exists on the comprehensive metabolic effects of large amounts of dietary protein in the order of 300 to 400 g/d. Intakes of this magnitude would result in some degree of prolonged hyperaminoacidemia, hyperammonemia, hyperinsulinemia, and hyperglucagonemia, and some conversion to fat, but the metabolic and physiological consequences of such states are currently unknown. The upper limit of protein intake is widely debated, with many experts advocating levels up to 2.0 g ? kg-1 ? d-1 being quite safe (102, 117, 118) and that renal considerations are not an issue at this level in individuals with normal renal function.
 
Tuli selailtua vanhoja ketjuja ja löyty tähän ketjuun sopivia juttuja:

The Time Course for Elevated Muscle Protein Synthesis Following Heavy Resistance Exercise
http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/abs/10.1139/h95-038#.UPpyaWf-uSo

Abstract

It has been shown that muscle protein synthetic rate (MPS) is elevated in humans by 50% at 4 hrs following a bout of heavy resistance training, and by 109% at 24 hrs following training. This study further examined the time course for elevated muscle protein synthesis by examining its rate at 36 hrs following a training session. Six healthy young men performed 12 sets of 6- to 12-RM elbow flexion exercises with one arm while the opposite arm served as a control. MPS was calculated from the in vivo rate of incorporation of L-[1,2−13C2] leucine into biceps brachii of both arms using the primed constant infusion technique over 11 hrs. At an average time of 36 hrs postexercise, MPS in the exercised arm had returned to within 14% of the control arm value, the difference being nonsignificant. It is concluded that following a bout of heavy resistance training, MPS increases rapidly, is more than double at 24 hrs, and thereafter declines rapidly so that at 36 hrs it has almost returned to baseline. Key words: L-[−13C] leucine, muscle hypertrophy, training frequency, mass spectrometry


Mixed muscle protein synthesis and breakdown after resistance exercise in humans
http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/273/1/E99.short


Abstract

Mixed muscle protein fractional synthesis rate (FSR) and fractional breakdown rate (FBR) were examined after an isolated bout of either concentric or eccentric resistance exercise. Subjects were eight untrained volunteers (4 males, 4 females). Mixed muscle protein FSR and FBR were determined using primed constant infusions of [2H5]phenylalanine and 15N-phenylalanine, respectively. Subjects were studied in the fasted state on four occasions: at rest and 3, 24, and 48 h after a resistance exercise bout. Exercise was eight sets of eight concentric or eccentric repetitions at 80% of each subject's concentric 1 repetition maximum. There was no significant difference between contraction types for either FSR, FBR, or net balance (FSR minus FBR). Exercise resulted in significant increases above rest in muscle FSR at all times: 3 h = 112%, 24 h = 65%, 48 h = 34% (P < 0.01). Muscle FBR was also increased by exercise at 3 h (31%; P < 0.05) and 24 h (18%; P < 0.05) postexercise but returned to resting levels by 48 h. Muscle net balance was significantly increased after exercise at all time points [(in %/h) rest = -0.0573 +/- 0.003 (SE), 3 h = -0.0298 +/- 0.003, 24 h = -0.0413 +/- 0.004, and 48 h = -0.0440 +/- 0.005], and was significantly different from zero at all time points (P < 0.05). There was also a significant correlation between FSR and FBR (r = 0.88, P < 0.001). We conclude that exercise resulted in an increase in muscle net protein balance that persisted for up to 48 h after the exercise bout and was unrelated to the type of muscle contraction performed.

Nämä ovat hyviä lähteitä tosiaan pidemmälle ajalle.

Tässä kiinnostuneille toinen juttu...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19124543

siinä mm. tää kuvio hera (feeding) efektin kestosta voimaharjoituksen yhteydessä:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2669978/figure/fig03/

Jos joku haluaa lukea koko ketjun: http://www.pakkotoisto.com/treeni/1...sen-aikana-kannattaako-juosta-paljain-jaloin/
 

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