Jooh, kato se johtuu ihmislajin etenevästä rappeutumasta. 70-luvun bodarit olivat natuja ja saivat isot lihakset natuina, mutta 30 vuotta myöhemmin se ei enää ole mahdollista.
Sergio ja Arnold alkoivat roinaamaan jo tuossa ennen 70-lukua luultavasti ja suurin osa käytti tosiaan jo avoimesti 70-luvuilla anabolisia.
Casey Butt sanoi:
So, if I'd suspect anyone of drug use during the very early '50s it would have to be Reg Park ...simply because his physique was so impressive that it's incredible to think that he was drug-free (and a statistical analysis of his bodyweight vs. wrist and ankle circumference vs. height seems to support this). I don't want this to be taken the wrong way, because I'm probably one of the biggest Park fans alive, and he's been an inspiration to me for the past 15 years or so. But I've always wondered about this. Could he really have been that huge and impressive without drugs? If so, he deserves to be recognized as hands-down the most impressive bodybuilder that ever lived (and probably ever will live). Perhaps Mr. Park could fill us in with an honest answer one of these days. I'd really like to know this for sure because a lot of drug-free bodybuilders need to have goals and it's very important for them to have an idea of exactly what is possible and what has been achieved without drugs.
Casey Butt sanoi:
Besides, bodybuilding is hard work. Natural bodybuilding is much harder. It requires years of struggle, effort, dedication, persistence and patience ...when, at times, progress comes at a snail's pace and it seems like all the work is for nothing. It takes a very strong, principled person to resist the temptation of a quick-fix, in light of this. Why should young lifters demonstrate the strength of character to remain drug-free when their modern role-models didn't?
Casey Butt sanoi:
Laying around somewhere I've got an old issue of the Canadian Journal of History of Sport (mid-seventies or earlier, I believe) that has a paper which presents a statistical analysis of the performance of the Soviet Weightlifting team from the late '40s onward. The authors conclude that something very suspicious began occuring in the Soviet team at the 1952 World Weightlifting Championships (which I believe were in Helsinki that year). That coincides exactly with what Zeigler said about being informed of steroid use in December of 1954 by the French team physician during his visit to Moscow, IIRC. The dates and details are all a little hazy now because it's been awhile since I looked into that stuff. Tommy Kono himself once told me in an email that he didn't know anything about steroids until the late '50s/early '60s.
So, if any western bodybuilder, lifter or otherwise was using anything before 1954, then he was way ahead of the game. And even the Soviets didn't appear to be onto it until 1952. However, Reg Park strikes me as a smart cat, and the Brits have a way of figuring things out and surprising people when the clucks are down, so if anybody could be ahead of the Soviets I'd give the nod to a clever Brit physician or someone with Park's reasoning ability and thirst for knowledge. However, having said that, I really don't believe that anybody was experimenting with steroids before the Soviets in 1952. And if Tommy Kono -- who was probably the greatest weightlifter alive at that time -- didn't know about it, then I strongly doubt that anybody outside of the Soviet team did.
And if Reg Park did discover steroids in the early-to-mid 1950s, why didn't he gain a sudden amount of muscle, or improve quickly beyond his previous condition? If you look at his career, he was a little better in '50 than he was in '49, a little better in '51 than he was in '50, etc. -- no sudden jumps in bodyweight or rapid improvement, just steady, consistent progress. And in 1958 he weighed about the same as in '51 (but his back looked somewhat denser). I don't think Park, or any other bodybuilder, was using anything before 1955 and probably not until 1958. And I don't see any reason to conclude that Park ever used steroids because he was never much better than his condition during the days when steroid use was almost impossible. But, damn, Park was impressive on the 1952 "Mr. Universe" cover -- it makes me even doubt the facts. He was better than Arnold ever was at that time ...and drug-free -- it's truly impressive.
Casey Butt sanoi:
You have a good eye. Jack Delinger was the other major lifter of the early '50s that was on the statistical limit of the lean body mass index for a drug-free bodybuilder ...and he carried that amount of muscle in the late '40s -- certainly before possible drug use (testosterone wasn't even approved for prescription to cancer patients in the USA until 1950). Actually, scaled for height and wrist and ankle circumferences, Reg and Jack carried about the same amount of muscle ...those were the two that set the upper limits for the equations I developed that predicted maximum muscular development of a drug-free trainee (followed closely by Clancy Ross). Reeves wasn't at all out of the realm of possibility so I never suspected him of steroid use at any time. I always defended Reg when people accused him of being drug-assisted because he was right on the edge of what seems to be possible according to some fairly extensive research, and Delinger achieved essentially the same thing a few years earlier when anabolic drug-use was a practical impossibility.
Reg Park:in natuudesta pohdintaa, Casey Butt:in mukaan Reg Park ei olisi käyttänyt mutta silti on niin lihaksikas ja voimakas, että erittäin vahvasti voisi epäillä ettei Reg Parl ei olisi natuna saannut 1951 vuoden fysiikkaansa.
Casey Butt on kehittänyt oman mittaustapansa, millä voi arvioida, nilkan ja ranteen luuston perusteella ja painon/pituuden perusteella, minkälaisen fysiikan voi naturaalina saavuttaa maksimissaan :natumaximi:
Reg Park ja Jack Dellinger:iä pitää ylärajana, mitä tulee lihasmassan hankintaan naturaalina, omiin mittauksiin ja arviointeihin perustuen.
Jan sanoi:
During World War II, German scientists began to synthesize other anabolic steroids, experimenting with human prisoners, as well as with German troops, whose aggressive tendencies they hoped to increase.3 Adolph Hitler's personal physician reported that Hitler was given injections of testosterone derivatives for various maladies.4 Ironically, one of the initial therapeutic uses of AAS was treatment of chronic wasting, such as was experienced by Nazi concentration camp prisoners.5
Jan sanoi:
As early as the 1950s, bodybuilders and strength athletes began to experiment with AAS. Soviet weightlifters demonstrated impressive strength gains from the use of testosterone derivatives, and their secret was passed on to the Americans at the 1954 World Championship.
Kris Kangas sanoi:
There was an article/interview with Bill Smith(actor,bodybuilder) here in a muscle mag in Mex. last year. They asked Bill about Larry Scott(first Mr. Olympia)and their training, as Bill was Larry's training partner. Bill said they used exactly the same training poundages, rep for rep, set for set. Larry was gone on a trip for a month, came back to Vince's gym looking really huge. Bill asked Larry what routine he was doing to look like that. Larry told him about "vitamine D". Bill claims he never used. Compare the two, and you get an idea what it did for Larry. This was done under a doctors supervision.
Remember this is about 1962-3. If done under a doctors supervision, then there would be records somewhere about Steve Reeves using(also under a doctor) unless you where using a really sleazy doctor, but remember, it wasn't illegal, just needed a doctor to get it. I highly doubt Reeves used it. Larry was up front about it, as well as Grimek(who used for a short time). The guys now who claim ALL these old time bodybuilders used, are justifying themselves.
Larry Scott tiettävästi on ensimmäisiä kehonrakentajia, jotka lääkärin määräyksella aloittivat roinauksen tuossa 60-luvun alkupuolella.
Koko thread "Steve Reeves used steroids?" Reg Park foorumilla on varmasti x määrän parempi antamaan todellisemman kuvan, mitä kehonrakennus oli 40-50 luvuilla ja miksi se muuttui, kun painonostajat alkoivat kokeilemaan 50-luvun alkupuollella ja amerikassa kliininen testaus dianabolilla alkoi 55-60 vuosien aikana. Kehonrakennuksen historia määrittelee aika täsmällisesti, minkälainen kehonrakennus on tällä hetkellä.
Arnold toi jättimäisen rintakehän/rintalihaksiston ja helvetin isot kädet ja ne jäivät ns. standardiksi muille kehonrakentajille.
Sergio Oliva oli mielestäni Arnold:ia parempi kokonaisuutena mutta Weider pystyi tekemään rahaa paremmin Arnold:illa ja Pumping Iron viimeistään loi kokonaan uuden mahdollisuuden tienata rahaa niin Arnold:in elokuvauraa ajatellen ja Weider dominointia alan lehdissä ja kilpailuissa.
Pumping Iron dvd:n ekstroissa on myös haastattelu, missä Arnold ajaa silloisella autollaan ja sanoo haluavansa kokeilla seuraavaksi näyttelijänä olemista.
Casey Butt sanoi:
It takes a very strong, principled person to resist the temptation of a quick-fix, in light of this. Why should young lifters demonstrate the strength of character to remain drug-free when their modern role-models didn't?
Tämä mielestäni määrittelee hyvin pelin hengen, miksi pitäisi pysyä naturaalina, kun kaikki ns. kehonrakentaja esikuvat ovat käyttäneet erilaisia anabolisia aineita jo vuosien ajan saavuttaakseen lihasmassansa/kireytensä?
http://regpark.net/bb/index.php?topic=197.0
Hyvä jos 70-luku saadaan näin puhtoisessa valossa tuotua esiin.;)
:D
eli kaikki olennainen kehonrakennus tieto löytyy tänne kirjoittaneitten pääkopasta joka muuta uskoo niin kunniatta kuolkoon
) - mutta ihmetyttää vain täällä palstalla esiintyvä jatkuva roinaamiseen liittyvien riskien vähättely...
Syntholin pimittämisestähän varmasti keskustelu tavallaan alkoi ja minä toin tähän keskusteluun oman näkökantani, joka taa ei liittynyt niinkään itse Syntholiin. Ja itse en kyllä ole katkera jos joku suomalainen menestyy. Samoin osaan myös arvostaa ulkomaisia suorituksia yhtä lailla. Doping-aineethan valitettavasti kuuluvat voimailuun (niin kehoiluun kuin minun enemmän seuraamaani nostopuoleenkin), enkä itse täten jaksa paljon kilpailijoiden puhtaudella spekuloida. Toinkin julki oman mielipiteeni palstan kirjoittelua (ja sen sävyä) kohtaan tuossa edellisessä postissani...
